Businesses are usually hierarchical and authoritarian. They put turning a profit first, sometimes to the detriment of the planet and their employees. In this interview series, we’re highlighting presses and bookstores managed along horizontal lines. Some are cooperatives, while others simply reduce hierarchies in their management. By spreading out leadership and in some cases ownership of a business, these companies allow their employees to steer them into making sustainable, ethical choices that aren’t driven by profit.
Push/Pull is an underground art and comic store, as well as a community space in Seattle’s Ballard neighborhood. They’re a cooperative producing and publishing art and comics in their own space. Push/Pull hosts art classes for adults and youth and is also an event space for art exhibits. This interview was conducted with Maxx, the director of Push/Pull.
They’ve been forced to shut their doors due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Please consider supporting them by buying some comics and artwork from their webstore, or by joining their VIP Club. You can also make a simple donation to them here.
This interview was conducted with Maxx Follis-Goodkind from Push/Pull.
Thomas Chisholm (TC)
How did Push/Pull begin? Where did it operate out of before the current location? When did it transition to a cooperative model?
Maxx Follis-Goodkind (MFG)
Push/Pull began in 2013 as a studio/gallery space in the Greenwood Collective. I had been a part of another collective gallery in the space and wanted to start my own project that allowed for more focus on illustrator artists who create more than just fine art. I wanted it to be a member model and asked at least a dozen artists if they wanted to be involved. Only one artist signed up, Seth Goodkind. For the first few months it was just the two of us showing our art and merchandise. In Spring of 2014, we started working together to curate guest artists and eventually group shows. In 2015, we decided that we wanted to move towards a cooperative business model and shift into a larger space that is open daily. We gathered our first members to help establish the Push/Pull Operating Agreement and rented out our current space in the Ballard neighborhood of Seattle. We were able to do it thanks to a successfully funded Kickstarter campaign.
TC
What does it mean to be a cooperative at Push/Pull? How are workers’ positions organized, do people work in a specific role until they tire of it?
MFG
Everyone at Push/Pull is a member-owner and we all work together to keep things running on different levels. Members are asked to sign up for at least six months and are welcome to stay as long as they’d like, as long as there are not any conflicts with the Operating Agreement. There are only a few positions: Director, Assistant Director, and Member. Technically everyone is a member, but the Director and Assistant Director roles have additional duties. All members sign up for days to cover the front desk and do our daily duties. Everyone meets once a month to discuss business items and to make decisions. No one has a stronger voice than anyone else, no matter their title. Members are welcome to leave whenever they like, but are asked for thirty days’ notice. Members may express interest in Director/Assistant Director roles or be asked to consider them.
TC
I imagine certain tasks require quite a bit of institutional knowledge, how are people trained? Are there departments? Do position changes happen in calendar cycles?
MFG
Most of the higher-level tasks are done by the Director, me. I went into this with a lot of knowledge of running organizations due to having many different roles in my professional career before Push/Pull. Each member is encouraged to take on administration tasks as they are able or as they would like. Members sometimes update the website, handle marketing tasks, or help with bookkeeping. I work with each member on what tasks they feel it would benefit them to learn. We don’t have departments or set changes.
TC
How many members are there at Push/Pull? Are members paid?
MFG
Member numbers range between six and twelve, but right now we have eight. Members aren’t paid, but do have financial benefits — higher commission rates and lower rates for classes. Technically we have a profit-sharing agreement, but that requires making a profit (something we’re still working on).
TC
Are there any Push/Pull volunteers?
MFG
We don’t have volunteers right now.
TC
As the director and founder of Push/Pull do you own a larger share of the business? If so, do you see a day where this is no longer the case?
MFG
I do own a larger share of the business. This is mainly so that I can make financial agreements and decisions without gathering multiple people. I do see a day when this is no longer the case. We are actually working on a new business model as a non-profit right now, which would remove any ownership. We’re still at least a few months away and haven’t worked out all of the details yet.
TC
How does Push/Pull sustain itself in a city as expensive as Seattle? Does being a nonprofit help?
MFG
Technically we aren’t a nonprofit — we have nonprofit projects, but the business is an LLC. There isn’t a model for being a cooperative business and a nonprofit — or at least not one that I can find. As far as sustaining ourselves, we’re lucky that we found a place four years ago with very reasonable rent. With everything else, we all just work really hard to make it happen. There aren’t days off for me. But, I believe in the work that we do and that it is worth it. I dream of a day when the city actually gives landlords incentives for renting to art groups, lower utility costs, etc. Thankfully we’ve got supporters and customers as stubborn as I am that have given and purchased generously to help keep everything going.
TC
In my experience living in co-ops, everything happens incredibly slowly. Is there anything about the cooperative model that inhibits Push/Pull or its members? What are the drawbacks of cooperation?
MFG
Everyone has to have other sources of income, so it can be hard for anyone to focus on progress as much as we want. Things do happen slowly, but I wouldn’t say incredibly slowly. Complications happen when someone leaves Push/Pull and was in charge of a task and there isn’t a member to replace them. For example, I had someone helping with artist sales reports. When that person left I didn’t have anyone available with the same skills to take over, or anyone interested and I never force anyone to take on a task. That meant I had to divert my time over to working on sales reports; it’s nothing bad, but it slows down progress in other areas. I’ve never wanted to run an organization that was about me, so even with the occasional complications of cooperation, I wouldn’t say there were drawbacks. I think it’s the only model that works for me because we get so many awesome people with their unique experiences and talents. We don’t always agree and my ideas don’t always win, but that’s the point. We wouldn’t still be around without the dozens of artists that have been members, lending their time and voice to the organization.
TC
What advice would you give to folks interested in forming a cooperative business?
MFG
I would tell them to leave their ego at the door because it’s not about you. I think one of the most important clauses of our Operating Agreement is the one that details how to remove me. Why? Because a cooperative is about creating a community and a community is not about one person. I would also say to be careful about who joins. It took us a while to figure out what would make a good member. Though we have an incredibly deep appreciation for our first members, the folks that we have now are a better fit for long-term membership due to specific skills that they can bring — like customer service, teaching, or marketing.
Originally published at FrictionLit
Also available on Medium